PD ROM 1/PD ROM Volume I - Macintosh Software from BMUG (1988).iso/Electronic Messages/USEnet Digests/USEnet Vol. 4/USEnet 4.07

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Usenet Mac Digest     Saturday, January 16, 1988      Volume 4 : Issue 7

Today's Topics:
     Metronome tick
     FKey / new system bug?
     DataDesk MAC-101
     MGMstation version and Macintosh II
     Crashing HDs
     overhead projector
     LaserDrivers 5.0, Appleshare, and Mac 512K,K/800's (long)
     Re: tcsh in AUX
     LightSpeed C gripes (2 messages)
     Re: FKey / new system bug?
     How can I differentiate between MacDraw's DRWG and PICT?
     TOPS Spool and MultiFinder: a Heisenbug

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Paul DuBois)
Subject: Metronome tick
Date: 13 Jan 88 23:09:04 GMT
Organization: The Ancient Harmonies

I'm writing myself a metronome to run on my Macintosh.  Anybody got a
suggestion for a good waveform and/or envelope that will (a) make a nice
"tick" sound, and (b) cut through the sound of instruments well.

(a) is purely subjective, I suppose.  (b) is more important, as one
wants to be able to hear the metronome without difficulty and not have
to be struggling with it and the music at the same time.  Perhaps
different waveforms cut through the sound of particular instruments
best?  The two of most immediate interest would be violin (my daughter)
and flute (me, HAH!).  Waveforms for use with other instruments are of
interest, however; perhaps others could use it and so I may post this
thing when I get done with it.  (It allows you to specify a variable
tempo so that you can use it to drill yourself on exercises (e.g.,
scales, or a difficult passage) at an increasing pace.)

Any information appreciated.

--
Paul DuBois     UUCP: {allegra,ihnp4,uunet}!uwvax!rhesus!dubois     |
                ARPA: [e-mail]              --+--
                                                                    |
"Live by the sword, die by the sword."                              |
s/the sword/promiscuity/g


------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: FKey / new system bug?
Date: 14 Jan 88 00:06:47 GMT
Organization: UC Berkeley Math Department


I am having trouble with using FKEYs from dialog boxes. It seems to date
from my switching to the new system, but occurs with and without
Multifinder.

Have a text box active in a dialog box (e.g. Key Caps, SFPutFile in a
word processor, etc.). I use Shift-Cmd-7 for the Date FKEY. (I put date
in my filenames!) It comes out preceded by the 7. The key down event for
the FKEY itself is NOT swallowed.

(Similar results occur for any FKEY, even ones which produce no text.)

However, no problem if I use Date in a document.

BTW, I wrote an FKEY which brings up its own Modal Dialog. Can I use any
resource # for the DLOG or are there guidelines similar to DA resources?

andy


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Lynn Olson)
Subject: DataDesk MAC-101
Date: 14 Jan 88 00:26:41 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Wilsonville, OR

In response to the DataDesk query:

I have a Mac Plus with the DataDesk MAC-101. I originally ordered it to
get a keyboard with a better typing feel than the mediocre Mac Plus
keyboard - which it delivers, with a look and feel very similar to the
Apple Extended Keyboard.

It is delivered with a so-so DA to take advantage of the function keys;
save your pennies and get QuicKeys as well. QuicKeys is easy to set up
and customize for a given application; for example, I use it with
VersaTerm to exactly emulate the Tektronix 4404 keyboard (the machine I
use at work).

In short, the Datadesk and QuicKeys together significantly improve the
Mac interface (how would you like to flip through a stack of windows at
a keystroke?).


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Peter Espen)
Subject: MGMstation version and Macintosh II
Date: 13 Jan 88 14:24:57 GMT


    What is the current version of MGMstation (In the Finder's Get Info
Box)? Is there anyone out there who can tell me if MGMstation works
properly on a Macintosh II?
    THANKS!
    espen!well


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Sascha Segan)
Subject: Crashing HDs
Date: 13 Jan 88 21:59:40 GMT
Organization: Datamerica Systems, NYC

Ever since my twenty meg built in HD (I have an SE) has reached fifteen
megs, strange things have been happening.
    Strange thing #1: When running MSWD 3.01 off my HD (It costs a lot, but
it's worth it!), I've often gotten a "Cannot Open" file error when
saving, leaving my new file in limbo. This "Cannot Open" continues even
if I return  to the Finder and come back!
    Strange thing #2: When running SigmaEdit UNDER MSWD WHILE MSWD is
having its little fit, SigEdit gives me a Disk Error -42 when trying to
save a file. What is this???
    Strange thing #3: I've also encountered, once since the MSWD problem
began, a "Your disk needs minor repairs" dialog upon bootup. Of course,
my SE did the repairs itself, but what is this? Yes, I have tried wiping
my MSWD off the HD and making a brand-new backup onto the HD. By habit,
I try not to run things off floppies anymore. So, what's the consensus?
----Sascha
--
Sascha I. Segan                   {allegra,philabs,cmcl2}!phri\
Big Electric Cat Public Unix          {bellcore,cmcl2}!cucard!dasys1!ssegan!
New York, NY, USA            {hoptoad,bc-cis,aecom,orville,raspi}!/


------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: overhead projector
Date: 13 Jan 88 15:51:00 GMT


Here is a followup on the article (below) that I posted earlier.  I am
repeating it here so that all the information will be together.
Apologies to those whose bandwidth may be strained.
--
/* Written 11:30 am  Jan  7, 1988 by friedman in uiucdcsb:comp.sys.mac */
/* ---------- "overhead projector" ---------- */
Several people have expressed interest in an overhead projector for the
Macintosh.  Roger Whitney (sdsu![e-mail]) previously posted
information he found in Info World (9/14/87) about a device to interface
between a Mac and a Sharp QA-25 LCD overhead projector display.  However,
the phone number Roger passed along got me nowhere.  I have finally chased
this down.  It seems that the device has passed from Standard Memories,
mentioned in the Info World article, to N2 Products, to Turnkey Products.
I spoke to Rod Curry at Turnkey Products, 619/241-0777, in Victorville,
CA.  Rod says that the device sells for $950 ($779.20 to universities and
military), is pretty much built on order, and can be delivered in 6-8 weeks.
He is sending me literature on it.  I presume other inquires would be
welcome.  (Roger, thanks for the lead.  I would never have found this
without your help.)
/* End of text from uiucdcsb:comp.sys.mac */

The address is:
    Turnkey Products, Inc.
    15337 Bonanza Rd.
    Victorville, CA  92392

The device is called Mac Video Converter MVC 2010.  It interfaces between
Mac, Mac 512K, and Mac+ models, and "a wide variety of video devices,
including low cost video equipment, existing video systems, projection
Television sets, IBM type CGA/EGA monitors, overhead projectors using LCD
graphic display devices as well as high quality video monitors."

There is an internal adapter to be installed inside the Mac, and a separate
device designed to fit "conveniently" under the Mac.

"An internal board configured to the Mac SE is SOON TO BE AVAILABLE."
(caps are original)

Call or write them for the literature if you are interested in more details.

Disclaimer:  I'm only passing along info given to me.  I have no financial
stake in this company or this product, and I make no representation that it
will do what it is advertised to do.  (However, my department is ordering
one.)

               H. George Friedman, Jr.
               Department of Computer Science
               University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
               1304 West Springfield Avenue
               Urbana, Illinois  61801

               USENET:    ...!{pur-ee,ihnp4,convex}!uiucdcs!friedman
               CSNET:    [e-mail]
               ARPA:    [e-mail]


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Peter J Gergely)
Subject: LaserDrivers 5.0, Appleshare, and Mac 512K,K/800's (long)
Date: 13 Jan 88 18:31:26 GMT
Organization: DREA, Dartmouth, NS Canada

We have encountered a problem using LaserDriver 5.0, with Mac 512's,
Appleshare System, and Bitmap graphics.  Please consider the following
as a tested bug report.
--
Configuration
-------------
    Hayes Interbridge
    Two Appletalk Zones, each with a Laserwriter Plus.
    40 Macs (SE, Plus, 512K/800, and 512K)
    1 Mac SE20i as Appleshare File Server

System on 512K, 512K/800
------------------------
    Default Appleshare System (System 3.3, Finder 5.4) with
LaserPrep 5.0 and LaserWriter 5.0.

Other Mac's.
------------
    System 4.2, Finder 6.0, Backgrounder on all Mac's with HD.
    System 4.1, Finder 5.5 on all others except 512's.
    LaserWriter and LaserPrep 5.0 on ALL MAC's.

Problem:
--------
    In our configuration (above), when any Mac 512K or 512KE
prints a bitmap image (embedded or otherwise) on a Laserwriter Plus
using the latest LaserWriter 5.0 Driver, the image is printed, and when
the dialog box is cleared, the Mac hangs.  This problem occurs even
with a Laserwriter hooked directly to a Mac 512, with a 6 foot
appletalk network, and a true copy of the 512K appleshare installer
disk, but replacing the LaserDrivers to 5.0 from the System 5
Installation set.
    Because of the fact that all machines on an Appletalk should
run the same version of LaserDrivers, we really don't want to go back
to using 4.0, even though we know that it works fine with the 512's.
    Currently, as a stop-gap measure, we have one Laserwriter
initialized with version 4.0, and one with 5.0, just to save the
reinitializations.  This is proving to be unsatisfactory for those
of us that have offices very close to the wrongly initialized
Laserwriter.
    At the current time, it is impossible to upgrade those Mac
512's to Plus'.

QUESTION:
    Does anybody have any solutions, comments, or patches, to
allow the 512K's to exist harmoniously (without the hangs) on our
appleshare network using LaserDriver 5.0.

    If possible, please reply directly to me at
[e-mail], and I will summarize any responses to this group
at a later time.

    - Peter
--
Peter J. Gergely (DREA, P.O. Box 1012, Dartmouth, NS  B2Y 3Z7  Canada)
      ARPANET:  [e-mail] (preferred) or [e-mail]
      DIALNET:  Peter@DIAL|DREA-Griffin            UUCP: [e-mail]
      CSNET:    [e-mail]      GENIE: GERGELY


------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: tcsh in AUX
Date: 13 Jan 88 06:15:00 GMT



The last time that I saw AUX, it included TSH right out of the box, so
you should have no problems wiht that.
--
Gaige B. Paulsen
National Center for Supercomputing Applications


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Michael Gleicher)
Subject: LightSpeed C gripes
Date: 14 Jan 88 16:51:03 GMT
Organization: Duke University CS Dept.; Durham, NC

I recently purchased LightSpeed C (2.11, upgraded to 2.15 from over the
net upgrades), and I must say it is one of the poorest products that I
have seen for a computer.

1) The documentation is awful. In general, I have not seen a well
documented
    product on the Mac (I'm used to the PC world). Most of the time
    it isn't too important as Mac programs are easy to use. Not so
    with something as complex as a C development system.
    All the lightspeed manual does is say how great the compiler is,
    how it is the ultimate environment, how much better it ill make
    programmers.
    The library reference is incomplete, and doesn't say little things
    like which headers & libraries you must include.

2) The editor sucks and you're stuck with it.
    The editor is so bad it isn't worth mentioning. Little things
    like a key to go to the end of a line, clear to end of line.
    When writing code, I need my hands for typing, not to do everything
    with the mouse.
    I thought that under Multi-Finder I'd have MicroEmacs 3.8m (a
    good editor with the mac interface) or some other thing running
    side-by-side. But this won't work because lightspeed keeps everything
    in memory.

3) The system is extremely limited by memory constraints.
    If I wanted to be limited to small code/data segments I'd have
    saved $3000 dollars and bought a 386 PC. But I want to be able to
    run Big programs on my Mac 2. I don't want to see Code Segment
    too large, although this is bearable considering the Mac loader.
    What isn't acceptable is seeing "Data Segment too Big".

4) The system doesn't really handle Multi-Finder.
    Under multifinder, I keep getting "Out Of Memory" when I try to
    compile programs (the program is about 2800 lines long in one
    file). Big programs won't run either.

5) The system doesn't support the 68881
    No gripe here. I knew that I was getting this when I bought it.

6) I'm not sure how robust the compiler is.
    The compiler seems to choke on some simple syntax things.
    for example:
        unsigned Book[][50];    doesn't work
            or
        extern unsigned Book[][50];
        Book = (void *) malloc(...)    gives a bizzare error

7) The error messages are useless.
    The compiler stops on the first error. It gives this obnoxious
    box to click in. The messages aren't too useful. It doesn't show you
    exactly where the error is.

Admittedly, I don't know the alternatives. I'm used to working on the
PC, but comparing lightspeed to TurboC (turboC costs half as much),
we're not talking the same league in product quality.

Also, what I've been trying to do is to take a UNIX/MSDOS program
(GnuChess) and get it to run on the Macintosh. This is probably not what
lightspeed was meant for.  But GnuChess should be easy compared to the
next on I want to try.

I don't at all regret making the jump into the 20th century and buying a
Mac ][. I do regret wasting the $95 bucks on LightSpeed C.
--
Michael Lee Gleicher            (-: If it looks like I'm wandering
    Duke University            (-:    around like I'm lost . . .
E-Mail: [e-mail])(or uucp    (-:
Or P.O.B. 5899 D.S., Durham, NC 27706    (-:   It's because I am!


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Oliver Steele)
Subject: Re: LightSpeed C gripes
Date: 14 Jan 88 23:38:02 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

Mr. Gleicher has posted a number of objections that I suspect a few
people share.  Since some don't matter, and there are work-arounds to
some, I've posted rather than mailed my response.

>1) The documentation is awful.

There isn't a lot of documentation, but there wasn't anything I had
trouble with even though I'd never seen anyone use the package before so
I don't think there's too little.

>    In general, I have not seen a well documented

What's so complex about a C development system?  I've had far more
trouble with word processors on the Mac.  Assuming you know C, of
course, and that's not what the manual for a particular implementation
of a language is supposed to teach you.

>    All the lightspeed manual does is say how great the compiler is,

The boldface word in parentheses below the function name at the top of
the page is the library.  If there's an include file, it'll be listed as
'#include <foo.h>' before the function declaration.  Aside from that,
you're right.

>2) The editor sucks and you're stuck with it.

You are stuck with it (in fact, that's one of the advantages of LSC as a
development system).  If you don't like the editor, you really would
have been better off buying any other system except perhaps MPW. By the
way, option-right-arrow goes to the end of a line, and if you really
need keys to clear to EOL, try return;shift-down-arrow;clover-X.
However, ...

>    When writing code, I need my hands for typing, not to do everything

So get QuicKeys or Tempo.  This is a point where you don't work well
with the Mac user interface, so you need something that fits between you
and the user interface, not a set of criticisms about each application.

>    I thought that under Multi-Finder I'd have MicroEmacs 3.8m (a

Run LSC and uEmacs.  Edit a file in Emacs, save it, click on its name in
the Project window, and press clover-K.  If a window pops open in LSC,
go to the same place in your Emacs window and close the LSC one.  This
is still simpler than vi and make on a Sun, and easier to figure out
than emacs on a unix machine.

>3) The system is extremely limited by memory constraints.

This is a flaw, but it's really hard to write 32K of data.  If you just
need it for arrays, just malloc or NewPtr() them and your object file
will be smaller too.  Sure, the compiler should be able to do this for
you, but this isn't the major difference between a II and a 386 PC.

>4) The system doesn't really handle Multi-Finder.
[You mean MF doesn't really handle the system :-]

If you have more than a megabyte of memory, give LSC a bigger minimum
size.  If you don't, most other large programs won't run either and you
probably shouldn't be running MF.  I don't, so I don't.

>        unsigned Book[][50];    doesn't work

Do you mean    unsigned Book[50][];    ?  What you've written isn't valid C,
and should have given an error on the PC; if it didn't, that's a PC
compiler incompability, not an LSC one.

>7) The error messages are useless.

The messages are more useful than cc gets me on Suns/Vaxen, and cc just
gives a line too.  They're less specific than tcc, so they aren't all
they could be.  However, they're better than cascading error messages (I
can usually only use the first error from compilers that give me
several), and porting code is the one area where they're really
obnoxious.  And if you like the keyboard better, just press 'return'
instead of clicking.

>Also, what I've been trying to do is to take a UNIX/MSDOS program

It's probably a lot easier if you have the 2.15 stdio library.  Earlier
ones gave me a lot of problems with things like sscanf(stdin,...); I'm
not sure how much better this has gotten.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oliver Steele                  ...!{decvax,ihnp4}!mcnc!unc!steele
UNC-CH LING Senior                       [e-mail]

Life is a negative-sum game.


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (David Phillip Oster)
Subject: Re: FKey / new system bug?
Date: 15 Jan 88 00:39:20 GMT
Organization: School of Education, UC-Berkeley

I use the FKEY DateKey 1.1. It definately has some bugs handling 1988.
As soon as we entered the new year, it began to put a garbage character
on the front of the day. I'd write to the author to see if there is a
newer version.  It also doesn't work in Macterminal. It _is_ shareware
after all. Did you pay your shareware fee?

There is a bug in the system with FKEYs: Here is how you trigger it:
(Caution, read the _entire_ directions before trying this.)

 1.) Run from a System file on a floppy.
 2.) eject that floppy.
 3.) Insert an unformatted disk into that same drive.
 4.) format the disk, so that you are looking at the "Name this disk"
  dialog.
 5.) trigger an FKEY.

The system will eject the new disk and prompt you for the system floppy.

 6.) insert the system floppy, hit return.

The directory of the new floppy gets written onto your system floppy,
completely erasing the directory. Your system floppy has just been
erased!

FLAME ON

Apple, you've got to work in your testing. Here we have a destructive
interaction between FKEYs and the Disk Iniitalizer package.

You also: 1.) can't use color quickdraw to Apple's printer drivers (Come
on guys, they are both your code, and System 4.2 is a second official
release, at least it shouldn't crash.)

2.) can't have a DA with a window on top of Macterminal when you select
"Clear Lines Off Top"

Apple, you are doing great stuff, but you've got to improve your
testing.

FLAME OFF
--
--- David Phillip Oster            --A Sun 3/60 makes a poor Macintosh II.
Arpa: [e-mail] --A Macintosh II makes a poor Sun 3/60.
Uucp: {uwvax,decvax,ihnp4}!ucbvax!oster%dewey.soe.berkeley.edu


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (John M. Sellens)
Subject: How can I differentiate between MacDraw's DRWG and PICT?
Date: 14 Jan 88 03:09:29 GMT
Organization: U of Waterloo, Ontario

MacDraw can save its files in either DRWG or PICT format.  How can I
determine, by inspecting the bytes of the data fork, which format a
particular file is in?  I checked in Tech Notes 21 and 27, and I suspect
that the answer is that I can't.  The 512 byte headers are exactly the
same in some (all?) cases, and the data doesn't seem to have a lot of
clues.  Oh well, I guess I'll have to try looking for the .info part of
the file (I'm doing this on UNIX you see...).

Thanks for any advice you can offer.
--
John Sellens

{decvax|utzoo|ihnp4|allegra|clyde}!watmath!watdragon!jmsellens
[e-mail].{edu,CDN} [e-mail]
[e-mail]

"Of all the stupid things I could have thought, this was the worst"
- Joe Jackson


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Dave Platt)
Subject: TOPS Spool and MultiFinder: a Heisenbug
Date: 14 Jan 88 19:49:47 GMT
Organization: Coherent Thought Inc., Palo Alto CA

I've encountered a marvelous Heisenbug (a bug whose behavior changes
when you look for it) involving TOPS Spool and MultiFinder... it's an
interesting interaction between these two products that Mac users should
be aware of, lest they become as frustrated as I did.

Yesterday, I installed MultiFinder on one of the Mac SE systems here at
work (we have 11 of them on a PhoneNet, with a single LaserWriter Plus
and a Kinetics bridge to our Sun Ethernet).  I did not run the
LaserWriter 5.0 installation script, because I had heard [correctly]
that TOPS Spool is not compatible with the 5.0 driver/prep files.

After rebooting, I found that TOPS Spool worked fine when the system was
booted in Finder mode, but behaved erratically when the system was
booted in MultiFinder mode.  The primary symptom I saw was that TOPS
Spool would spool the file to disk, but would not print it.  The status
display would indicated "Waiting;  source: AppleTalk", and the printer's
yellow status light would double-blink (indicating that the printer was
waiting for data to be sent over AppleTalk).  Sometimes files would
print OK;  sometimes the spooler would send none of the file;  sometimes
the spooler would send a varying percentage of the file (up to 100%) and
then hang without terminating the PAP connection, causing the printer to
time out after several minutes.  I tried spooling one file several
times, and the copies seemed to exhibit different behavior.

I tried deinstalling and reinstalling TOPS Spool, reinstalling virgin
LaserWriter and Laser Prep files from the System 4.1 tools disk,
reinitializing the printer, isolating the printer and Mac from the rest
of the PhoneNet, and quite a few other things.  Behavior was still
erratic.

Finally, I noticed one critical clue:  if I had turned "Print while I
work" off, and then opened the TOPS Spool d/a and turned it back on, the
spooler would not begin transmitting the file until I closed the desk
accessory.  Printing would then begin, and would continue to work
properly until I opened the desk accessory again... at which point the
current print job would hang!

So... hmmm... using the TOPS Spool desk accessory under MultiFinder
causes the background printing task to stop working, but using exactly
the same desk accessory, System, drivers, etc. works just fine if the
system is booted under the Finder.  What's the difference?  Well, under
MultiFinder, desk accessories are normally opened by a mini-application
called DA Handler, so that they won't go away if you "Quit" from your
current application.  I tried opening TOPS Spool while holding down the
Option key, which forces the desk accessory to run in the current
application's context... and, lo and behold, background printing kept
working!  Apparently, the TOPS Spool desk accessory interferes with the
background-printing task if it's run under DA Handler, but not if it's
run under the current application (Finder, in my case).

Summary: if you're running TOPS Spool under MultiFinder, and want to use
the TOPS Spool desk accessory, you should hold down the Option key when
opening the d/a;  if you don't, you'll temporarily hang the printing
task.

I've reported this problem to TOPS tech support... it's apparently the
first time they'd heard of it.
--
Dave Platt
  UUCP:    ...!{ames,sun,uunet}!coherent!dplatt
  Internet: coherent![e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail]

------------------------------

End of Usenet Mac Digest
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